I wrapped up the installation of a tankless (”on-demand”) electric hot water system for the house over the weekend. It was rather demanding of skills and time. Over a month ago i had received the first heater using a buy-it-now link on eBay. The Titan SCR4 (their beefiest model) was new so the only savings to me was the shipping was free. I spent the better part of a day removing the old electric hot water heater (which needed to be replaced) and plumbing in the connections for the unit. I also did the wiring and tried to be cheap about it and didn’t buy any additional wire (the unit comes with about 18 inches of wire for each connection) so mounted the heater very close to the electrical panel. The heater requires two double pole 40 amp breakers so a single heater will take up 4 slots of a breaker panel. Unfortunately the instructions that i followed online indicated that the heater needed only one double pole sixty amp breaker. We let water flow through for a while and then kicked on the breaker. The water only warmed a little. Despite the manufacturer’s claims that the unit was designed for “colder climates” and “large homes” we found the temperature increase inadequate for even washing dishes. We do live in Alaska and it was winter. I found instructions on installing two heaters and bought another one. I am certain that if we had used two 40 amp breakers that the heat output would have been greater.
The illustration above shows my installation. I used ample valves because i wanted the ability to remove either unit for service or warranty repair and still be able to use the remaining heater. There was quite a few hours invested in cutting pipe, soldering, and wiring. The water temperature is very nice now and i have actually turned the temperature dials on both heaters to about the middle of the range of settings. Hot water seems to arrive at the faucets and shower head faster than on the hot water tank system. The only drawback we have is that all the lights in the house have a slight flicker to them when hot water is being used. Unfortunately that includes when the toilet is flushed (which is going to have to be a future plumbing project - we don’t need warm toilet water). Seisco claims to have a system that does not cause lights to flicker.
Material list and prices:
2 Titan SCR4 heaters @ $450 each =$900
4 40 amp double pole breakers @ $21 each (only $10 each at Lowe’s) = $84
9 feet of 8/2 wire and wire nuts = $20
6 1/2 inch gate valves with compression fittings @ $10 each = $60
Copper pipe and fittings ~ $80
Over $1,140 total
A standard electric hot water heater with a tank would have cost about half that. With a life expectancy of up to 20 years (according to energystar.gov) the tankless electric heaters should last almost twice as long as the tank system. Carrying the assumption that this system will last twice as long as a tank system means that any savings in electric cost will be money in our pocket. If 15% of our electricity bill is spent on heating water and we see a 45% improvement in efficiency (see this Energy Star document) and our electric bill is $120 a month then we should see a savings of about $8 per month with this setup. If the system lasts 20 years the total savings would exceed $1,920 making the entire system more than pay for itself in our case. On top of all that it looks like the on-demand system system will qualify for a substantial tax credit for energy efficiency.
[Edit: Our additional electrical load actually caused the failure of a transformer out on the power pole outside of our house. It is advisable to contact your power company before adding service like this. They replaced the transformer and the lights didn't flicker as much when we used water. Then they increased the size of the line feeding the house from that transformer and now the lights just dim a little when you first turn the water on. We're happy with the setup for the most part now!]
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January 16th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
i just hope all of our $$$ saved doesnt have to go towards imitrex when the flickering lights start inducing migraines…
February 26th, 2007 at 3:26 am
I INSTALLED A MAREY TANKLES ELECTRIC WATER HEATER-[240 VOLT,
8 AWG,40 AM CB],BUT I DID THE TEST,IT DID NOT WORK.I INSPECTED THE INSTALLAION AGAIN AND I DID NOT FIND NOTHING WRONG.BUT WHAT I FOUND OR SOUND CURIOUS IS THAT THE THE ELECTRIC WIRING OF IT ONLY HAVE 3 WIRES [ONE GREEN AND TWO WHITE] INSTALLED TO THE ELECTRIC PARTS.I INSTALLED THE GREEN WIRE TO THE GROUND CONTAC OF THE CIRCUIT BREAKER BOX AND THE 2 WHITE WIRES TO A DOUBLE 40 AM CB.WHAT I DID WRONG?…THANKS FOR YOUR HELP…PR.
NOTE:INSIDE THE BOX OF MAREY MODEL I DID NOT FIND ANY GUIDE OR LITERATURE OF HOW TO INSTALL IT.
February 26th, 2007 at 9:07 pm
Rey,
I’m not an electrician but i think you did install it correctly. Mine came with three wires - one black, one white, and one bare. The bare was wired to the circuit panel ground and the white and black to each of the connections on the double pole breaker. You might try calling the manufacturer. Sorry.
March 14th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
Thanks for the story zieak. I live in Miami and have the same problem with the flickering lights. I spent a lot of time with the electrician trying to fix the problem which is compounded by Florida Power and Light’s (FPL) refusal to diagnose the problem as originating from them.
June 13th, 2007 at 7:27 am
It would appear you would have a good supply of hot water using two SCR-2 together, rather than using one SCR-4. Anyone used this configuration??
June 13th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
I bet using two of the SCR-2 units as i have them diagrammed would provide ample hot water.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
I am confused why do you need an extra water heater for your installation. The temperature rise are based on the flow rate (in unit of GPM - gallon per minute) of your water flow. Would it be the water heater capacity wasn’t fit for your local water flow rate?
There are quite a few guides on the Internet in calculating the size (capacity) of the tankless water heater vs location - simply googling it should get you to the right spot.
June 18th, 2007 at 8:26 am
Ok - i’ll bite on this spam - I live in Alaska so the groundwater temperature is fairly low. I also have an apartment so despite having low flow shower heads the ability to make plenty of hot water is pretty necessary.
August 5th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
I just bought a SCR2 on Ebay & installed it. I’m having a problem with the lights flickering.
The person i bought it from said that can be caused from a bad Ground.I’ve soldered the ground at the point where i wired the unit up & still get the flickering lights.The ground in the breaker box seems to be tight.I may try & make a separate single ground for the SCR2 using a pure copper rod & see what happens.
He also said the flickering could be caused from the breaker being at the bottom of the breaker box.My dual 60 amp breaker is in the second from the top position.The breaker is brand new !
I have it set to max heat & can’t seem to get a full shower with consistant temperature.
Its refered to as sandwich effect on some other websites.
P.S. For those of you who don’t want to solder the copper connections, their is copper glue you can buy.Its easy to use.Works great.
August 6th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
From an email i received…
Hi Zieak,
It appears the instructions you initially followed are meant for the Titan SCR2 N-120, as this is the model that requires the 60 amp double pole breaker.
Since you did not supply the correct electric connections to the Titan SCR4 N-180, the water heater did not perform the best of its capacity. I’m sure that if you had wired it properly from the start, it would have performed quite well, even in Alaska weather.
By the way, there is an even more powerful model available, the Titan SCR4 N-210. Now, about your flickering lights. Each N-180 has a max amp draw of 77 amps. You have two of these units, for a potential max amp draw of 154 amps. Most panels have a maximum capacity of about 200 amps. So you may be pushing the limits of your panel’s capacity. This is the reason why your lights may be flickering. The demand may just be too high. I’m assuming you have a 200 amp panel, it may actually be smaller or a bit larger.
Allow me to make a suggestion. Employ only one of the Water Heaters. According to your diagram, the installation looks very nice. You have the breakers and the valves in place, so disengaging one of you heaters is quite simple. Just shut the water valves supplying water to one of the heaters, as well as the breakers powering it. You want to try using only one heater. This should cut down on your electric bill, as well as reduce, or even eliminate the flickering of your lights. And one unit should also have sufficient power to provide a good shower.
Best Regards,
Martin
September 12th, 2007 at 7:12 am
i got the titan n120 and have installed it. i have a 60 amp double pole breaker and 6 gauge wire installed.
the problem that i have is that when i turn on the hot water, only warm or no difference water comes out of it. i have the temperature control on high but still it doesn’t work. and also when i turn the water on low in the faucets the water gets warm but when i turn the faucet on high then the water gets cold again. i have checked the wires and i cannot find what is wrong.
can you please help
thank you
September 12th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
Guliy,
I would try to get in touch with Martin at Titan. I sort of have a similar problem. Our two units work great for everything except for when trying to fill the bathtub. It just seems to pull too much water through the units and they seem to shut off. If we turn the water off, wait 15 minutes and then turn it on at a slower rate (not on full) then it is able to keep up. This is easy for us to deal with because we never use the bath. We do have to warn guests that use that bathroom to turn the shower on immediately which reduces the flow to around 2.5 gallons per minute. You might want to try to install a flow reducer on the faucets. Usually you can just get a threaded insert for faucets that will specify the GPM on the packaging. Good luck - please feel free to reply here with what you figure out.
November 29th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
I have the same issue as guliy. I’ve followed the horrible directions given with the unit and still no hot water. I’ve double checked the connections adn everything is ok. the units red lights turn on when a faucet or tub is turned on and the pipe gets really hot coming out of the unit, but my problem lies in that we don’t get any hot water in any parts of the house. It barely gets luke warm. My wife is about to eat me alive if i dont’ get this fixed. what else can i try??
December 7th, 2007 at 7:33 am
The only thing that might work is reducing the flow of the fixtures. If you turn the water on hot but only a low flow does it warm more than luke warm?
February 5th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
heats sinks fine but not showers!!!!looking for an upgrade to the titan .
August 7th, 2008 at 2:50 am
Had the flickering light problem for a year with two Titan 120s installed. The issue is low voltage, or over amperage on the feed lines.
Bugged the electric company, and they moved the local transformer one pole away from my house and all is well.
To trouble shoot, start with a voltage/amperage check at the lines coming into the house to determine if the problem is the feed coming to the house, or the house wiring.
From there, make the changes necessary.
August 25th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
The best ever water heater that I experience is the Marey Brand. The company is doing good in the service…They improve so much. I recomended to anyone…
I have many years intalling this water heater specialies in the Santon Power Pack and Power Gas 20 lts Gas Tankless water heater.
Good variety in the Tankless Water Heater…